Tom Marshall’s lyrics have long been associated with Phish and for good reason. His relationship with frontman Trey Anastasio now spans over 30 years, and the two have collaborated on many classic tunes, while establishing a unique chemistry that is fueled by Marshall’s ability to not only present a poignant lyrical image, but leave enough to the imagination for the listener to ponder. We caught up with Marshall on the eve of Super Ball IX as he discusses his current writing projects, including some fiction and a possible book, and his work with Anastasio which may appear on an upcoming Phish studio album later in 2012. Marshall also remains an astute observer of the Phish scene, while always maintaining an individual point of view of what makes the band tick.

After you’re done reading, stop by Jambands.com for more of our conversation with Tom.

What are your initial thoughts about Super Ball?

TM: I’m useless at doing any kind of work while anticipating this festival. I am very, very excited. I feel like they are ramping up to something incredible.

It is the fifteenth anniversary of the Clifford Ball. Did you want to talk about your thoughts looking back at that festival?

TM: (laughs) You know, it’s funny because I was reminiscing with my good friend, Scott Herman who has been to every single festival with me, apart from Indio. He and I realized that all the festivals, unfortunately, in our memories, blend into one. I do remember, and it could be the Great Went, this incredible moment where we were hanging off the back of a golf cart. One was driven by Trey, and I forget who the other one was, and Danny Clinch was in the passenger’s seat of Trey’s golf cart, and he was just clicking, clicking, and clicking. I’ve never seen those photographs and I have realized that to me is kind of the epitome of the whole thing right there. We were cruising on a runway, and then cruising through tents, and people were realizing that was Trey who was going by at 20 MPH, or however fast a golf cart can go. They were running after him, and a little bike parade was happening – it was just so fun.

The cities that they’ve built up in all of them, the world and the environment – it has put me off on other festivals. I don’t go to anything else because I’m treated so well. I’m like family at Phish. I’m just afraid of being one of many in another festival. Also, I don’t feel like the other people will get it. I also don’t want to see a multi-band festival. I like the single-band aspect, and I think that Phish is the only one that can really pull that off.

I think the festivals always worked because fans were immersed in an environment that produced a unique singular experience. It isn’t just the band and its music, or the fan base that has made that happen. I also feel that your lyrics have contributed to the Phish mythology. Obviously, that is respected by older fans. When you show up at a Phish festival, it must feel like a homecoming in a way.

TM: (laughs) Well, it’s funny. I have recently seen some stuff on line from young kids, young fans, first time fans, and they get on Phantasy Tour, and a lot of them write good things about Phish lyrics. It has always been my style to be a little bit ambiguous, not the most obvious thing that you would think about, or think what a song is about. If that is what people like about Phish – normally, it is the jamming, the unpredictable nature of live shows, but, the lyrics are part of it. I’m noticing that first time fans are getting it. I think that’s great. I see a lot of “What Are Your Favorite Lyrics?” threads from users I don’t recognize on Phantasy Tour. You know, every now and then, I’ll check them out.

The place has gotten a little negative for me, and it is always the people who stay home, who don’t go to the shows. They see it on paper, and they tear it apart like “oh, this was a terrible show,” and they weren’t even there. Whatever. I’m so not worried about that. And neither is the band, I’ll have you know. In fact, of the four band members, the only one who ever might have a chance of ever getting on Phantasy Tour, I would think, is Mike. For almost six or seven years, Trey doesn’t get online and doesn’t read reviews at all. Do the math.

Let’s talk about the work in the last six or seven years leading up to now. During that time, Amfibian had one of the most interesting projects, which was the studio album, that I feel holds up really well. Since then, you’ve had a reunion with Trey, on Phish’s Joy, and now, there may be another Phish studio album.

TM: Skip the Goodbyes is the Amfibian album you are talking about, and thank you. To me, it was a little bit of break with a different songwriting partner. Since around 1997, I’ve always had different songwriting going on with my project, Amfibian. But, when Anthony Krizan [guitarist] and I hooked up, it really turned into something that I feel is still one of my best works, and that’s Skip the Goodbyes by Amfibian. Thank you for continuing to recognize it, and push it as much as it can be pushed. (laughs)

As far as new stuff with Trey, Joy was interesting because, you know, a lot of pieces were being put back together to make Phish be able to be Phish again. One of those puzzle pieces, in a way, in Trey’s huge jigsaw puzzle, was me. (laughs) It’s natural for us to just sort of sit down and write songs. That was a cool thing because I reached out across the chasm. Trey, by necessity, had fallen out of communication with a lot of people, and I was one of those. “Backwards Down the Number Line” was the thing that pulled us both back into songwriting in a big way. Joy was interesting because he got a cool hotel in New York, and I showed up there uncharacteristically with no lyrics. None. Nothing. He and I just wrote pretty much all the songs together – apart from “Backwards Down the Number Line,” which was an e-mail I sent before that. “Joy,” the song, was an interesting thing that came about right at the time when his wonderful sister, Kristy, was dying. We started the song writing about our daughters. Then, it became about Kristy. But as a whole, it was also about Phish coming back and being joyous about it.

At the time did you think Phish would ever record another studio album after
Joy, especially considering the way the record industry functions these days?

TM: I know I will always write with Trey; as long as he and I are physically able to get together, we will write. We always say, “We’re not sure. We’re not going to point to these songs as Phish songs. They are just songs.” And I leave it up to him what happens to them. If they become Trey Anastasio Band songs, or if they become an experimental album that Trey does with a new producer and it becomes sort of a funny album that he does by himself, or it just becomes unreleased music that he and I have collected over the years (laughs), that is fine with me.

I’m really all about the songwriting process, so thinking too far ahead is nonproductive for me. The album itself? That’s the band getting together and making an album. That’s a band thing. I’ll step into the studio now and then if allowed, or if invited, or if it is convenient, but I am not really part of that process. The album is a Phish thing. But just having that bulk of songs, at that moment for Joy, we knew it was going to be for Phish.

As far as going forward, yes, I had every confidence, just based on the happiness level of Trey, and Phish is his baby, and Phish is coming back, when everyone had thought it had been thrown out with the bathwater. (laughs) Suddenly, [Phish] was back, and Trey was so happy, so, yeah, I knew that more music was needed.

It’s funny based on the way things work these days with the songs and the songwriting industry. Albums are less important, so Trey and I have been writing songs here and there, back and forth, whenever we get together, and maybe there’s a one-off, or two-off, and sure enough, there’s a song “Pigtail,” which he played maybe once, maybe twice, and the same thing is happening with “Steam.” I have a feeling that one, “Steam,” will be picked up and become a staple. But whether those two make it on to the next album, or they become something that is part of their live shows now and then, I don’t know. I never know. That’s Trey’s call.

I also feel that when the album becomes an actuality – a block of time is set aside in the future for the band to start recording in the studio – I know that Trey and I will frantically get together and possibly piece together some songs that haven’t been finished, or we’ll write maybe five new ones. Who knows? But there’s always a frantic scuffling before the band goes into the studio (laughs), just to try to finish off some project that we started.

What were the origins of the “Steam” songwriting process?

TM: Just before the tour started, I sent an e-mail to Trey with the lyrics. He and I had been talking a lot more, and talking about getting together in his house in New York, and we never really actually did it. But, in preparation, I’ve been getting some material together. One of them was this really long story/poem, and I thought I’d just send it to him to see if it rang any bells. Ordinarily, that would be too long, and it is sort of in a different style. It could be something that he would look at, and normally say, “Wow, this
is cool, but not a song.” I was a little surprised that he just loved it right away, and it fit into this idea that he had where he needed another “Sand” -type groove – a slow, sexy groove song. Sure enough, I guess he had been working on one of those, and he just pieced the lyrics on to it and it worked without my having heard it – the music at all – or even being part of the melding of the music to the lyrics. One of the things I will say about that song is that’s our first iPad/garage band collaboration because he was writing it on the iPad, and he sent it to me, I listened to it on my iPad, so it’s cool. (laughs)

Classic Tom in there in the lyrics, and that Tom/Trey chemistry, too.

TM: The chemistry’s classic, but the story is…I’m hoping, maybe not…people are saying, “Wow, that’s classic Tom,” but I’m not sure it is. Maybe it is; who knows. I guess people know my style.

*Well, the format and the way the lyrics flow in “Steam” are a different avenue for you, but some of the imagery makes me think: " That’s Tom Marshall." *

TM: (laughs) Someone pointed out that steam is another form of water, and I always have to have water in my lyrics. (laughter)

Are you looking into doing longer forms of writing that you have developed out of your normal songwriting process? And, furthermore, do you ever suffer from writer’s block?

TM: Yes and no. No for music, but yes, I’ve been writing a lot. Maybe, you’re right; maybe, this sort of spilled out of that. I’m working on writing a novel right now, and it is in the fantasy realm. There’s no tower or wolves in it, as of yet, but it’s definitely in that same kind of mindset in a way – there’s horses and swords, so there is a possibility. I was thinking that this poem or song – unlike my other ones, which are even more free-flowing, and don’t necessarily need one – needed a conclusion. Therefore, it was a linear story, and I needed it to finish. I had an idea of what happened, and what the situation was with the girl locked in the tower, and it became longer, and more of a cohesive story, as opposed to just imagery that I might ordinarily do.

As far as writing, I’ve been doing a lot of writing that isn’t songwriting, and I’ve been enjoying it. I’ve been having a great time at it. I haven’t really spoken to many people yet about it. It isn’t necessarily something I don’t want to speak about, but it’s been my own little project right now. I don’t really even know. I’m not 100% thinking it is going to be anything that is done anytime soon. It is just something that I am working on for myself, and it’s a lot of fun. I do this thing where I sit down and I’m going to write music for an hour a day, and I’m going to write this story, the book, for one hour a day. That’s my promise to myself, just to keep it going.

I have some form of ADHD, or what I call pathological procrastination. It affected me in
college, and it affected me in the workplace, where I really don’t do stuff until the last – and I’m not even saying the last minute – the last second. If someone will ask for something, or need something, like at work, for example, and this is going back six years when I was actually in an office-type environment, and working with a manager, a deadline, and a project plan, and I would know when my portion of the project was due, and, believe it or not, that would be a major undertaking. A project was due on Friday, and you learn about it on the previous Friday. Presumably, you start working on it a little bit on the weekend, and then on Monday, Tuesday, you’re working really hard on it, and then, Wednesday, you get together with your manager and say, “Look, I’m going to have
a little trouble with this, but for the most part, I’ll be done on Friday.”

My thing was always “Oh, I’m doing great. Everything’s fine. Everything’s good.” (laughs) And then Wednesday and Thursday would show up, and I would have this bulk of work and I hadn’t even started, or even begun the research on how to do it. Thursday would go away, and people would go home, and I would be sitting there at my computer, really honestly not having started, and I would work through the night and get it done. I would actually sit there in my same clothes when people were coming in the next morning on Friday – that kind of thing. I did it at college. I did it at work. Eventually, people kind of figured out that I was doing it, but then, yeah, I’d usually leave and go to another job. (laughs) I didn’t want them knowing that about me.

As far as that happening in my music life, in my creative life, it doesn’t matter so much because there isn’t really someone looking over my shoulder. I respond to pressure and deadlines in the aggregate – and, if you are looking from above, pretty well; I actually do get it done, and I get it done on time – but, how it gets done is my own personal concern.

Writer’s block…you can call it that, but making this promise to myself has really helped. I will sit down and I will not go and stray and get on the Internet and do various things that I could do. I sit and do an hour of writing, and I’ll sit and do an hour on the music thing. That has really been helping me, and I’ve had that rule for the past couple years.

The conversation continues over on Jambands.com