Yesterday we began our two part conversation with Diamond Rugs. The group will return to the road for a week of shows starting on Saturday at Carnegie Hall. Ryan S. Henriquez sat down with the group’s principal songwriters John McCauley, Ian Saint Pe, and Hardy Morris. Thursday’s installment focused on Saint Pe. Today Henriquez speaks with McCauley and Morris.

JOHN MCCAULEY

I heard that you dined on pig kidney and duck tongue last night.

John McCauley III: Yeah, and ox tripe.

How’s duck tongue? What does it taste like?

JM: Duck tongue is a little too rich for me. I did not enjoy the flavor of it very much. And I don’t know if it’s cartilage or bone or something in there, but it’s crunchy. It’s a little upsetting to my palate. Nobody could even swallow one. Everybody tried it and chewed on it and spit it out. I felt kinda bad because we wasted a lot of duck tongue.

Think of all the ducks who are mute because of you now.

JM: How are they going to make those AFLAC commercials?

Can you just give me a little context as to how the Diamond Rugs project came together?

JM: I guess it started with me and Bryan.

Dufresne?

JM: Yeah, [drummer] Bryan Dufresne. We’d wanted to play together for a while and it never happened for eight years.

You guys grew up together in Providence?

JM: I didn’t know him too well for a while but he’s been around Providence for a long time. He played in Six-Finger Satellite for a bit. Vincebus Eruptum too — a metal band — I’ve seen them play a few times. And then I met Ian [Saint Pe] from Black Lips at Coachella a few years ago. We were both pretty fucked up but I just had a good feeling about him. I thought “I’ve got to work with this guy.” But I didn’t see him for a long time after that.

Were they on the road?

JM: Yeah — Black Lips — I think they tour more than Deer Tick! And that’s a lot! Black Lips played Providence and Ian & I hung out after the show. Bryan hung out with us too. We stayed up all night and said “Let’s start a band.” We were going to call ourselves Stoner Drama and make this shitty little punk record. The theme was going to be what stoner roommates might argue about. Bryan came up with a couple of good song titles like, “You Ate All the Fucking Chips,” and “When’s Your Girlfriend Gonna Start Paying Rent?” So it was basically just going to be for fun. And then I went on this magical mushroom trip and went to a Los Lobos concert last summer.

In Providence as well?

JM: Actually in Cranston, Rhode Island. Los Lobos was my first concert ever, ya know.

Where was that?

JM: That was the Newport Folk Festival, in 1989? Maybe 1990, I don’t know. My parents took me because I was crazy about Los Lobos when I was a kid.

What were you like 3 years old at that point?

JM: Yeah. Apparently I danced my ass off through the whole set. I don’t really remember it. But I remember the feeling. I remember having a toy guitar and just rocking out.

So you talked to Steve [Berlin] a little bit at the Cranston show?

JM: Yeah. I went out with them to McCormick & Schmick’s after the show. I had a big bag of mushrooms …

Did Steve indulge?

JM: No, he didn’t. I told the bus boy, I gave him five bucks and said, “Go clean out a couple of those oyster shells and dry them off and give them to me.” I filled up a couple of oyster shells with ‘shrooms and I sent them down the bar to [Los Lobos singer/guitarist] David Hidalgo — “Hey David, you should try the oysters!” I don’t know if he ever ate them or whatever.

Steve is a pretty interesting cat. He was playing in The Blasters in the early ‘80’s and Los Lobos was opening up for them. And Steve essentially sought out Los Lobos and told them he wanted to play with them.

JM: I love The Blasters. Yeah, Steve’s musical history is incredible.

Did you mention to Steve you were trying to get a project together?

JM: Yeah, that’s how it came up. Steve had met Robbie [Crowell] a while ago. I think that was when Rob was playing with The Matinees. So I brought that up and we had all these little connections.

Why did you choose to record the album when you did? Was there just a break with Deer Tick?

JM: If I didn’t have a new project in mind, I wouldn’t have been recording. But I assembled this group and everybody was free for this 10-day period. It seemed like this could be our only chance to do it so let’s fucking do it.

How was the experience different from Middle Brother?

JM: Diamond Rugs is most definitely a band. I could feel that it was more of a band than Middle Brother ever felt. Not all of us involved in Diamond Rugs have hit our goals with our careers, but everybody’s really satisfied where we are. So Diamond Rugs is just fun. It’s another band for us. We treat it like a band. It’s not a side project or “super group,” whatever the fuck … I would never call it a “super group” but some blogs like to call it that.

Journalistic short-hand…

JM: But they always put it in quotes! So maybe they DO get it…[laughter]

Was this your first project since you moved to Nashville?

JM: Yeah.

Does Nashville feel like home at this point?

JM: Definitely. I’m really excited about living there. It’s really fun.

It’s having a real renaissance in the last ten years. Some of the best rock n’ roll is coming out of Nashville.

JM: There are some great bands coming out of there. And people moving there. JEFF the Brotherhood is fucking awesome. The Ettes. The Whigs moved there. Jack White.

Deer Tick has several records under its belt. Is there more freedom in the studio with a brand-new, clean-slate project like Diamond Rugs?

JM: Well, if I’m doing something that sounds different than Deer Tick, it’s probably not me — it’s the people I’m playing with. I think any song I’ve written for Deer Tick, Middle Brother or Diamond Rugs could be adapted to any other band that I’m in.

Do you just record the songs you’ve written at the time or most recently?

JM: That has been my style for Middle Brother, [Deer Tick’s most recent record] Divine Providence, and Diamond Rugs. It’s just whatever I have written or whatever I wrote while we were doing it.

Did you write a lot in the studio?

JM: For Diamond Rugs almost entirely. Middle Brother I brought in a couple of songs. Divine Providence we cut 22 songs but the record’s only 14.

Justin [Collins, Divine Providence producer] told me during the last week of your Divine Providence sessions that you “birthed” 5 songs in about the same number of days.

JM: Yeah, I probably went in with eight or nine songs and then wrote about five while recording Divine Providence.

Is it nice with a brand new project like Diamond Rugs to be free of expectations?

JM: Yeah, because we weren’t even sure that we would get a whole album out of it. I’m glad we did, but if we’d gotten four songs out of it, I’d have been happy too. It was kind of an experiment, like, “Can we do this?”

How soon did you realize it was going to work?

JM: Day One. On Day One, it was just me, [drummer] Bryan [Dufresne] and [bassist] Robbie [Crowell] and we laid down basic tracks for a couple of my songs. It was just guitar, bass and drums. If that foundation’s there, then it’s not incredibly challenging to build on it. But with Robbie and Bryan, they’re a great rhythm section. We actually have an alternate mix of the record where it’s bass and drums only with whoever is singing lead vocal and the guitar track. We call it the power trio mixes. They sound really good.

Any specific memories from SXSW this year with Diamond Rugs?

JM: I think we were all frustrated because we didn’t get any time to rehearse and everybody was just coming off the road with their own band. We weren’t very focused at South By, but we just said “fuck it” and we winged it, and you could definitely tell at some shows. As the week progressed, we got a little tighter but there was also … it was really frustrating because I think we had 11 of us or something and just trying to do a line check in ten minutes in between bands and trying to get 11 different instruments to sound good and be presentable is not an easy thing to do. And I think just between some sound issues and being under-rehearsed, we were all a little defeated by South By.

And to be playing for 15,000 people at Auditorium Shores on your third show ever…

JM: We played fine at that show. It was just the sound that was fucked up. People that wired the stage had things patched wrong … some instruments weren’t even miked and [sound engineer] Melanie [Renecker] is running front of house for us, and she couldn’t do a thing about it because it was the people on stage that fucked us up. We went out to dinner with Ian McDonald from Turf War last night. He was talking about Auditorium Shores, and he said, “When I would come by the side of the stage, I could hear your monitors and I could hear you guys play and you guys were fine. But then I’d go out into the crowd and it sounded like shit!”

At least you didn’t know it while you were playing it.

JM: We thought we were killing it! [laughter] I remember someone booed after a song and I said, ‘Boo yourself, motherfucker!" [more laughter]

I imagine it must difficult with your schedules to coordinate tours and recording sessions. Do you have plans for any of that stuff?

JM: Yeah, we were able to find some time in October where we’re all free. And I haven’t yet, but Ian and Hardy, between the two of them, already have ten songs for the next record. I don’t know when we’re going to be able to get in the studio again. I hope soon.

HARDY MORRIS

Can you tell me how you got involved with the Diamond Rugs project?

HM: John and I became buddies several years ago just through mutual musical respect. I was a fan of his and he’d gotten [Dead Confederate’s first] album [Wrecking Ball]. It was back in the days of MySpace! I think he actually sent me a MySpace thing, it was like, “My band’s going to play in Athens, come out to the show,” and I told him, “I’ll be there.” We hit it off, became fast friends and then we toured together — Dead Confederate playing with Deer Tick. And that was always really fun. And then John came over to Athens to hang out for a weekend and asked me to come to Nashville and record some stuff, which I couldn’t do because I was busy.

I probably could’ve made it happen but I didn’t. And in retrospect, I wish I had because that wound up being the Middle Brother thing. And that was pretty damn cool. So when he asked me again about coming over? I told him without hesitation “I’ll be there.” So that’s what became Diamond Rugs.

Did he just call you up?

HM: I woke up one morning and there were some text messages. I think he and Robbie [Crowell] were up late talking and trying to figure out some people to play. So when I woke up one morning, there were some text messages from him saying, “Come to Nashville. Do you want to record on some stuff?” And after the last time, I said yeah. So I drove up and we did a couple of songs right when I got there. And they played me some of the stuff they’d done before I got there. Ian [Saint Pe] came and it just snowballed. There was no plan from the beginning.

Did you go into the project with some songs already written for it?

HM: No, not written for it. They were just backpocket blues songs that made no sense for Dead Confederate — they just didn’t match what we [Dead Confederate] do at all. When I arrived and John played me “Tell Me Why” and “Call Girl [Blues],” I thought of those other bluesier songs I’d written a while back, and that this might be a good outlet for those. But when I was driving up I thought we’d be doing something totally different.

Like what?

HM: Well, they had told me about the Stoner Drama concept, so I was relying on what Dead Confederate typically does, which is more psychedelic. So I was just thinking riffs and pedals and everything, and thought, “Oh this is going to be fun.” But then when I got there, it was totally different.

What’s different about recording with a brand new band like Diamond Rugs versus working with a band like Dead Confederate that you’ve been in for several years?

HM: There’s no comparison really. It’s so different. We’re learning the songs on the spot. I’d never even been in the same room as Bryan [Dufresne], and then here I am and I’m teaching him my songs. It’s cool in that regard just because it’s completely new. I don’t even know this guy and I’m telling him what to do. It’s kind of weird, actually.

Is it nice to be free of those expectations? To be able to walk in and just fire away?

HM: We didn’t even know what we were doing so nobody’s even thinking about that! We were just recording songs — there wasn’t even a band name.

Just seeing what happens.

HM: Yeah, there was just nothing to it. So that keeps it special right there.

Did it take a while for you guys to gel?

HM: No, it was very few takes. We’d learn the song, make some changes to fit people’s playing or what other people heard. No one was dictating “This is THE song.”

You guys seem to have an easy rapport with one another. Did you know them all beforehand?

HM: I knew John and Robbie and I knew Ian a little bit. I’d hung out with Ian a couple of times. But I didn’t know Bryan [Dufresne]. I didn’t know Steve [Berlin]. I didn’t know Adam [Landry] and Justin [Collins], the guys that recorded the record. [Blues harp player] Bryan Minto, we weren’t even there at the same time.

What was it like working with [Cosmic Thug producing team] Justin [Collins] and Adam [Landry]?

HM: Great. I think that’s why they continue to come and play at the [Diamond Rugs] shows when they can, because it feels like they’re part of the band. It all comes in one big clump.

They seem to be very much about analog recording and “less is more,” which I’m sure presents challenges.

HM: Yeah, it’s a lot of thinking ahead in order to make sure you can get everything you want onto those eight tracks.

I imagine it must have been strange to go from the studio sessions where everything is completely brand new, to finishing the record and suddenly hearing folks like Paste call it “the most anticipated album of the year.” Did you feel pressure from those expectations?

HM: Nah. We’re just having a good time playing the songs we did together. If people like it, that’s great. If it meets anyone’s expectations — I don’t know. There was no forethought to anything to begin with, so why start thinking about it now? It was just for fun.

What was your most memorable experience with Diamond Rugs at South By Southwest this year?

HM: We had the pretty memorable “bomb” show opening for Counting Crows. We were fine, but the sound people … I had friends there who said it was the absolute worst live music audio they’ve ever heard in their entire life.

Well at least that’s an achievement.

HM: Yeah! [laughter] They said it was unbelievably horrible.

Was that the Auditorium Shores show?

HM: Yeah. [My friends said] “John’s guitar’s cranked, Ian’s guitar’s was non-existent. The kick drum is there but there’s no snare. You can’t hear the horns and Robbie’s bass is just pummeling.” It made no sense apparently. But we had no idea, we were on stage!

It sounded good to you guys.

HM: Yeah! We were just playing along and then we got down and they told us, we were like, “What?!” So I guess that was pretty memorable.

What are the future plans for Diamond Rugs?

HM: We’re going to play some shows in October. And then we’ve been talking about recording again. Obviously there are a lot of schedules involved but Ian and I both have a handful of ideas that I think would fit really well with what we can do together. I hope we don’t lose any of the spontaneity that happened the first time, but now we know the ingredients of the band. We know it’s all there. We just have to wait. I won’t write any other lyrics or anything til we get there. I’ll keep it fresh in some regard.

My favorite song off the album right now is “100 Sheets.” So I was just curious if you can give me a little context for it.

HM: That song was just talking about pursuing music. “On our heels and taking hits, this thing’s gonna be big. Too much, to quit the shit…tasting blood with every lick.” Just getting slapped around when you’re trying to do what you love. But you keep going and eventually if you work hard enough and put enough into it, eventually people wise up and realize you’re not full of shit and doing it for the wrong reasons. You’re doing it because you love it.